What happens when 300 bishops, one emperor, and a heretical musical number collide in a Roman villa? Spiritual slapfights, fainting monks, and the Creed that changed history.
Okay, so you must know the backstory to come up with such a fantastic riff on it! Church history. What a concept. The thing is, history is so … malleable. I remember when my youngest was in high school taking “US History and Government,” (yes, Virginia, they used to study that in school) his radical teacher used Howard Zinn’s “People’s History of the United States” as a text. I read it too and thought it was great. Being somewhat more mature than a kid in high school (though not by much) I was able to parse out ideas that seemed more ideology than history (after all, being able to do that is what education is meant to teach a person) but it was really helpful to hear the story from the untold perspective of the folks on the ground. And that story was only about the last 250 years or so. The record of church history doesn’t even really start in any organized way a person can absorb until about the time of your parody. Romans, right? I’m glad they organized stuff. I’m glad they started recording things. But seriously, old Arius and his ideas are still around. All that effort to stamp out heresy and what did it accomplish? Not much. What I wish is that I could have a little time-travel device that would let me experience what came before all that. Those followers in the first 250 or 300 years, starting with the apostles. Guess that one will have to wait - until later.
Dawn, Zinn, Arius, and time travel? That’s a holy trinity I can get behind. I agree, history isn’t a marble monument—it’s wet clay, shaped by whoever holds the pen. Zinn rewrote America from the ground up, and Pagels did the same with the church archives. Meanwhile, we're out here with flashlights and a grin, trying to hear the voices empire buried.
Arius may have lost the vote, but heresy’s got a longer shelf life than orthodoxy. You can exile a man, but you can’t kill a good question. And those first few centuries? I’d trade a thousand councils for one night around a fire with the ragtag mystics, healers, and fishermen who whispered about light within, no collars or creeds, just breath and bread.
If you ever get that time machine working, save me a spot. I’ll bring the figs.
I doubt even Doctor Who (as a series) would be brave enough to present that, though with hardly anything written about those days, who could argue? ;)
[SPOILERS]
Interestingly, there was a Star Trek: Original Series episode, "Bread and Circuses," that had a bunch of "sun worshippers" that sounded kind of similar to that kind of idea, set in a 20th Century Roman empire that never fell, just continued with TV (including televised gladiator games), cars, etc. eventually, presumably having taken over the rest of the planet. The "sun worshippers" had been folks like ex-gladiators, ex-Senators, ex-etc., enslaved (later escaped and hiding out together in a cave system in the country, where they no doubt had interesting discussions :D) for their beliefs, which included things like "our way is peace" and "there is only one true belief" (sigh) and "no killing" and "blessed be the sun" and "false gods...when I was a Senator, I worshipped them too, but then I heard the words of the sun. I became a Brother. For that, they made me a slave." and "may the blessings of the sun be upon you" and "the words of peace and freedom" and "the message of the sun, that all men are brothers," etc. The /Enterprise/ folks finally found out at the end of the episode that it wasn't "sun," it was "Son"... :)
Donna, you just invoked Joni Mitchell, Jaco Pastorius, and the Nicene Creed in the same breath. That’s not a comment. That’s a spiritual jazz solo.
“God must be a boogie man”? The Council would have burned you at the stake for less, but here in the Monastery of Madness, we canonize you on the spot.
Mingus would have flipped the filioque clause into a walking bassline and left Athanasius sweating in 7/8 time.
I raise your musical blasphemy with an improvised creed:
I believe in one groove, eternal and syncopated
Begotten of silence, not made by theologians
Of one essence with the Vibe
Through whom all improvisation was made
The Spirit does not descend on doctrine. She rides cymbals and fills the room like smoke.
I've always had a soft spot for Arius and found Athanasius irritating. Not saying who was right or wrong, just the emotional reaction I've had to their stories.
Yeah, I dunno, I can't see ol' S.C. slapping anyone, but there've been all sorts of "origin stories" for him over the years... ;)
There was one I dug in the Guardians series, where this dude, Nicholas (sp.?), who has the franchise these days, was originally a Cossack bandit leader, trying to invade this "palace at the North Pole" (apparently on land...). He was the only one of his men decent enough to make it through all the really nasty TRAPS set for would-be invaders, and if I recall correctly, the Palace needed a new guy to fill the position, so he was eventually allowed in.
I recommend "The Rise of the Guardians" animated movie, based on the books (very loosely; the Easter Bunny in the books is a near demi-god, if not higher [regulates the seasons], not an Aussie-accented ninja rabbit, but the stone Easter eggs in the denouement are straight from there). The Santa Claus there is probably the closest character to the books and is a wonderful hoot. :)
The original saint: wasn't he the patron of sailors and reformed thieves as well? :)
I had to finish all eating & drinking before reading this, too tired to clean up the mess made from hysteria whilst imbibing while satiring. WOW. I had NO idea how little I learned in Lutheran Sunday School. Or high school history class……you had me at Act 1 when the monks started fainting 😂. How to forgive without punching 😅. Goat racing 😜 & a guy tries to speak in tongues but recited a bakery menu 🤣. (I felt bad about it but i really wanted another monk to faint after that 🤭). OMG thank you for hysteria badly needed. And a lotta history made funny at the same time 😉
Beth Ann, your comment belongs in the monastery’s Hall of Holy Reactions. Anyone who references goat racing, bakery tongues, and spontaneous monk-fainting in the same breath clearly gets the spirit of the thing.
I’m honored to have wrecked your snack time in the name of Nicene nonsense. Lutheran Sunday School skipped a few plot points, and apparently left out the part where heresy smells like cinnamon rolls and forgiveness means resisting the urge to uppercut a bishop.
If one more monk had passed out, I would’ve had to canonize the floor.
Thank you for laughing loudly and learning sideways.
Raisins were probably condemned as heretical at the Third Council. Too much sweetness hidden in the folds. The bishops preferred their rolls like their theology: dry, dense, and in need of wine to make it swallowable.
Dr Elaine Pagels has written excellent books about the hard core beginnings of the Catholic Church. Her first Ivy League thesis Gnostic Gospels is a good place to start.
Hmm! One wonders why they just didn't outright destroy everything, seemingly forever... Could've been that there were some closet (sorry) Arius folks? Maybe they thought they couldn't destroy it, so it'd be better to just seal it off? Maybe it might be needed again for some reason?
Or perhaps just later folks being inspired all over again by the original, actual Source? :)
If empire could have shredded every last scroll, it would have. But fear is clumsy. Better to bury and curse than to risk torching something that might one day prove useful to your own propaganda.
And you’re right, texts have a way of haunting. Seal them in jars, lock them in monasteries, smear them with heresy, and still they whisper. Truth has a long half-life.
Brilliant prose
Thank you!
What a powwow of guys! I do like the phrase they came up with for Jesus, in the end. “Not God Lite”. Cool 😎
Right? The ultimate theological throwdown. Robes flying, egos bruised, scrolls slapped.
“Not God Lite” might be the only decent branding to come out of that entire council. Definitely better than “Consubstantial™ with a side of exile.”
Glad you enjoyed the holy chaos, Shirley.
Somewhere in heaven, Constantine is still clutching that glitter hourglass. :)
If he’s still holding it, it’s only because the saints won’t let him plug it into the smoke machine.
Heaven’s HOA already told him once: no more theatrics in the throne room.
Loved it! :)
Okay, so you must know the backstory to come up with such a fantastic riff on it! Church history. What a concept. The thing is, history is so … malleable. I remember when my youngest was in high school taking “US History and Government,” (yes, Virginia, they used to study that in school) his radical teacher used Howard Zinn’s “People’s History of the United States” as a text. I read it too and thought it was great. Being somewhat more mature than a kid in high school (though not by much) I was able to parse out ideas that seemed more ideology than history (after all, being able to do that is what education is meant to teach a person) but it was really helpful to hear the story from the untold perspective of the folks on the ground. And that story was only about the last 250 years or so. The record of church history doesn’t even really start in any organized way a person can absorb until about the time of your parody. Romans, right? I’m glad they organized stuff. I’m glad they started recording things. But seriously, old Arius and his ideas are still around. All that effort to stamp out heresy and what did it accomplish? Not much. What I wish is that I could have a little time-travel device that would let me experience what came before all that. Those followers in the first 250 or 300 years, starting with the apostles. Guess that one will have to wait - until later.
Dawn, Zinn, Arius, and time travel? That’s a holy trinity I can get behind. I agree, history isn’t a marble monument—it’s wet clay, shaped by whoever holds the pen. Zinn rewrote America from the ground up, and Pagels did the same with the church archives. Meanwhile, we're out here with flashlights and a grin, trying to hear the voices empire buried.
Arius may have lost the vote, but heresy’s got a longer shelf life than orthodoxy. You can exile a man, but you can’t kill a good question. And those first few centuries? I’d trade a thousand councils for one night around a fire with the ragtag mystics, healers, and fishermen who whispered about light within, no collars or creeds, just breath and bread.
If you ever get that time machine working, save me a spot. I’ll bring the figs.
Me too! Man, that would be an awesome party. :D
I doubt even Doctor Who (as a series) would be brave enough to present that, though with hardly anything written about those days, who could argue? ;)
[SPOILERS]
Interestingly, there was a Star Trek: Original Series episode, "Bread and Circuses," that had a bunch of "sun worshippers" that sounded kind of similar to that kind of idea, set in a 20th Century Roman empire that never fell, just continued with TV (including televised gladiator games), cars, etc. eventually, presumably having taken over the rest of the planet. The "sun worshippers" had been folks like ex-gladiators, ex-Senators, ex-etc., enslaved (later escaped and hiding out together in a cave system in the country, where they no doubt had interesting discussions :D) for their beliefs, which included things like "our way is peace" and "there is only one true belief" (sigh) and "no killing" and "blessed be the sun" and "false gods...when I was a Senator, I worshipped them too, but then I heard the words of the sun. I became a Brother. For that, they made me a slave." and "may the blessings of the sun be upon you" and "the words of peace and freedom" and "the message of the sun, that all men are brothers," etc. The /Enterprise/ folks finally found out at the end of the episode that it wasn't "sun," it was "Son"... :)
And olives! Hey - that guy, Ireneaus had some great ideas. I wish I could read his stuff without my brain hurting
Flawless as ever..
🙏
…”begotten, not made.”
I’ll see that satire and raise you some 40 year old recovering Lutheran musical blasphemy, Dear VMB. 😉
“Which would it be, Mingus, one or two or three?
Which one do you think He'd want the world to see?
Well, world opinion's not a lot of help
When a man's only trying to find out how to feel about himself…
God must be a boogie man.”
• The Lady Joni Mitchell (with Jaco Pastorius & Don Alias, & I forgot Pat Metheny)
https://youtu.be/aKIwC7qYyAo?si=AO_WjFLAt56UNkwj
Donna, you just invoked Joni Mitchell, Jaco Pastorius, and the Nicene Creed in the same breath. That’s not a comment. That’s a spiritual jazz solo.
“God must be a boogie man”? The Council would have burned you at the stake for less, but here in the Monastery of Madness, we canonize you on the spot.
Mingus would have flipped the filioque clause into a walking bassline and left Athanasius sweating in 7/8 time.
I raise your musical blasphemy with an improvised creed:
I believe in one groove, eternal and syncopated
Begotten of silence, not made by theologians
Of one essence with the Vibe
Through whom all improvisation was made
The Spirit does not descend on doctrine. She rides cymbals and fills the room like smoke.
Stay heretical. Stay groovy.
✨🌟🤩🌟✨
Maybe satire but it’s the best explanation of the controversy I’ve seen. Thanks you!
Brilliant! Satire is holy!
Fun!
I've always had a soft spot for Arius and found Athanasius irritating. Not saying who was right or wrong, just the emotional reaction I've had to their stories.
Likewise, but at least Athanasius didn't slap Arius
That we know of...
Oh I am sure the Orthodox would have bragged about it like they did when they claim that St Nicholas (yes Santa Claus) slapped Arius.
Yeah, I dunno, I can't see ol' S.C. slapping anyone, but there've been all sorts of "origin stories" for him over the years... ;)
There was one I dug in the Guardians series, where this dude, Nicholas (sp.?), who has the franchise these days, was originally a Cossack bandit leader, trying to invade this "palace at the North Pole" (apparently on land...). He was the only one of his men decent enough to make it through all the really nasty TRAPS set for would-be invaders, and if I recall correctly, the Palace needed a new guy to fill the position, so he was eventually allowed in.
I recommend "The Rise of the Guardians" animated movie, based on the books (very loosely; the Easter Bunny in the books is a near demi-god, if not higher [regulates the seasons], not an Aussie-accented ninja rabbit, but the stone Easter eggs in the denouement are straight from there). The Santa Claus there is probably the closest character to the books and is a wonderful hoot. :)
The original saint: wasn't he the patron of sailors and reformed thieves as well? :)
I like your Cossack bandit version better. At least that one admits he came in through the back door with a lockpick instead of a halo.
I had to finish all eating & drinking before reading this, too tired to clean up the mess made from hysteria whilst imbibing while satiring. WOW. I had NO idea how little I learned in Lutheran Sunday School. Or high school history class……you had me at Act 1 when the monks started fainting 😂. How to forgive without punching 😅. Goat racing 😜 & a guy tries to speak in tongues but recited a bakery menu 🤣. (I felt bad about it but i really wanted another monk to faint after that 🤭). OMG thank you for hysteria badly needed. And a lotta history made funny at the same time 😉
Beth Ann, your comment belongs in the monastery’s Hall of Holy Reactions. Anyone who references goat racing, bakery tongues, and spontaneous monk-fainting in the same breath clearly gets the spirit of the thing.
I’m honored to have wrecked your snack time in the name of Nicene nonsense. Lutheran Sunday School skipped a few plot points, and apparently left out the part where heresy smells like cinnamon rolls and forgiveness means resisting the urge to uppercut a bishop.
If one more monk had passed out, I would’ve had to canonize the floor.
Thank you for laughing loudly and learning sideways.
Did the cinnamon rolls have raisins? :D Mine would; they're missing nowadays... :(
Raisins were probably condemned as heretical at the Third Council. Too much sweetness hidden in the folds. The bishops preferred their rolls like their theology: dry, dense, and in need of wine to make it swallowable.
Oh! So...holy hard tack? :D
Dr Elaine Pagels has written excellent books about the hard core beginnings of the Catholic Church. Her first Ivy League thesis Gnostic Gospels is a good place to start.
Yes, brother Christopher. Pagels cracked open the Vatican’s broom closet and let the ghosts of gospel past come waltzing out.
The Gnostic Gospels wasn’t just a thesis. It was a Molotov cocktail thrown into the Sunday School flannelgraph.
While others were polishing Peter’s sandals, she was translating the texts they buried with curses and red wax seals.
Pagels didn’t just study church history. She exposed its coverups with Ivy League calm and mystical sass.
Hmm! One wonders why they just didn't outright destroy everything, seemingly forever... Could've been that there were some closet (sorry) Arius folks? Maybe they thought they couldn't destroy it, so it'd be better to just seal it off? Maybe it might be needed again for some reason?
Or perhaps just later folks being inspired all over again by the original, actual Source? :)
If empire could have shredded every last scroll, it would have. But fear is clumsy. Better to bury and curse than to risk torching something that might one day prove useful to your own propaganda.
And you’re right, texts have a way of haunting. Seal them in jars, lock them in monasteries, smear them with heresy, and still they whisper. Truth has a long half-life.
Fabulous!